But, due to the toxic culture it gets so draining. And it's certainly worth pursuing if you have the skills and the appetite. Engineers design, build, and maintain structures and systems. Get updates in your inbox with the latest tips, job listings, and more. He is the co-founder and CEO of Aha! A common one is moving from a technical role such as a software engineer to a more business-focused position like a product manager. You do not want to work with an engineering manager who exists on an island keeping the details of what their team is building out of view. At how many years of experience are the salaries comparable with each other? Hey everyone, I keep reading here that Apple PMs are more engineering project managers. Ill go first although its my current package (got hired early 2021). Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. Open communication is necessary for them to assess the feasibility of new product requirements, evaluate the progress of epics and features, and review code. Exponent's system design interview course. #pm #productmanagement #productmanager, To all the Product Managers, how did you get your first Product Management job? There is truth in this. TPMs make about 50% more than developers on average, with a yearly salary of $140k. This involves identifying opportunities, prioritizing them, selling a vision and getting buy-in from relevant stakeholders. For the average person, it's much better to have a business background than a development background if you want to pursue entrepreneurship. Will my move back to product management b, Can we collate a list like this for the benefit of the PM community? Technical background (coding and architecture) helps if you are PMing features but as a SWE that should be covered already. Ea asperiores sunt optio commodi ut aut. I have 5 YOE . Tc:85k #productmanagement, Currently in a less than optimal position due to management and hiring freezes causing a lack of resources. I'm someone who was extremely extremely good at math (and by extension, physics and other hard science disciplines), got into HYPS school, could have gone down theCSpath, and chose the finance path instead. I have 5 YOE . Engineering managers set the architectural vision and determine the technical strategy for the product. Ut quis natus est tenetur assumenda cum alias. This changes as you become a tech lead or engineering manager and start dealing with more people. I will need to do LC grind for SWE but PM seems the easiest way as a stepping stone. the worlds #1 product development software, The Best Cover Letters That CEOs Love to Read, New Marketing Managers Do These 8 Things in the First 30 Days. Product Designer. So I guess it's a matter of what skills best align with you for the greatest success. Build products like you always wanted. Their skills, however, may remain the same. This gives you more room to shape the role. Managers grow fast in economic conditions favoring growth as how many people you manage directly relate to your title growth. Is it better? WLB depends. IC is better in recessions where its much easier to find job as IC. Do you have any idea how much harder it is to get a job at Google than say CIBC Capital Markets? Product managers are responsible for gathering requirements and providing the engineering team with well-defined features. Google / Microsoft folks, I'd appreciate any info and advice you might have for me. They also differ in their approach to solving problems and in their way of thinking. I think you're conflating engineering management with product management. Can anyone please refer me? 300+ video lessons across 6 modeling courses taught by elite practitioners at the top investment banks and private equity funds -- Excel Modeling -- Financial Statement Modeling -- M&A Modeling -- LBO Modeling -- DCF and Valuation Modeling -- ALL INCLUDED + 2 Huge Bonuses. More and more people are considering making career pivots. The details vary but the essence is the same. Aliquid quos et et omnis molestiae vero. The first is the strategy component. Upwork Kids here will never be able to code anyway lol. No one is working together effectively. A software engineers contributions usually consist of writing, debugging and shipping code, designing solutions for technical problems, reviewing code from teammates, identifying processes to improve engineering velocity across the team as well as keeping the product stable, scalable and performant. A Product Manager manages the prioritization of product requirements throughout the . Need not mention FAANG. Learner. Having a formal CS degree I also think its a bit more intangible and Im pretty skeptical of PM courses because so much is situational. Learn everything you need to ace your software engineering interviews. Check out our blog on tech interviewing tips, strategies, and more. Flipkart. I am on H1B work visa and so have a shorter timeline to find a job. I am a EM for last four years. So forget about engineers, just directly ask which companies give good pay for PMs. Create a strategy that addresses the market needs and curates a prioritized roadmap for engineers, designers, and marketing teams. Would be really nice to get paid in equity from them. Not sure about the level yet. Interview Prep. Engineering managers set the architectural vision and determine the technical strategy for the product. Omnis qui molestias et repellendus earum mollitia dignissimos. They have a lot of ownership over the product roadmap and a lot of say over the product strategy. But in a nutshell, a product manager is responsible for deciding what a development team should build. The exceptions were successful startup founders, niche profiles Is LinkedIn data accurate? But are there any more business oriented PMs? A lot of software engineers also become client-facing as sales engineers and solutions architects. The problem is that my current TC, Im really not sure what exactly product managers do to warrant the same TC as say a machine learning engineer or backend distributed systems engineer? Apple, Go to company page That doesn't mean micromanaging from . While the team collectively owns the direction of the product, team members do not necessarily report to the same manager or function. Most SDEs hate PMs. Et velit deserunt dolor iure suscipit. Amazon I really hope for their own sake that the people worrying about capping out at $400K and whatnot are mostly just super ambitious college kids that don't know any better because the real world statistically will be a harsh reality check for the vast majority of y'all. TPMs lead the sprints, gathers requirements from the product managers. The engineering manager needs to know the high-level strategy as well as feature-level details. Woman in Tech. Natus dolorum quibusdam quia quisquam sequi. In regards to career progression, a lot of times it seems like software engineers or other types of engineers eventually go into the management route.If one were to try and stick to engineering and become a senior or principal engineer how is the pay. You will clarify and revisit your product strategy through its lifecycle. The tech boom is just a blip amongst the companies of history. Getting a job at Google is much harder than getting a job at a. Generally speaking, product managers act as a bridge between the technical and business sides of a company. You can ask your manager if you wish to switch tracks and have the necessary skills. IBM, Go to company page You're absolutely right. If progression is you goal you need to look at opportunities. Meta Depends on market conditions. The PM role entails data analysis, strategic planning, collaboration, and execution. where do I start, Not at all. Prioritize customer-focused solutions that directly contribute to the organization's success. This means that their work is less narrowly-scoped and that it differs from day to day. A software engineer is involved in the implementation. So tech entrepreneurs are the only entrepreneurs in history to you? For me, I was more interested in finance, and at the end of the day, I decided that the compensation isn't really terrible in finance considering the fact that like 10% of FAANG SWE's get past 400-500k/year (get promoted to Senior SWE). What is the basic difference between these 2 career paths and which one is better I know many SWEs later become Engineering Managers . You do not really understand why the engineering manager makes the decisions they do. Wondering if i should start applying those? I value being able to read 10-Ks and analyze downside scenarios and evaluate businesses in my lowly junior banking job (which only gets more interesting as I get more senior) - I would hate to write code for a big corporation to reduce glitches and bugs in their latest Teams patch or iOS update for a living. As a manager, you spend your days solving people problems, not technical problems. You are ultimately accountable for the product's success or failure. Youre in fewer meetings and hopefully have fewer distractions. Discover the differences between product management vs software engineering, where some may feel more inclined to choose one over the other. Ben's been building software for 15 years. #fint, Seeing a couple of my former colleagues now making 60+ lakhs per annum as senior or principal product managers at Amazon Hyderabad and elsewhere Has the Indian market gotten so good for product management? We use this information in order to improve and customize your browsing experience and for analytics and metrics about our visitors both on this website and other media. The best on both sides lean on their leadership skills not their title. The engineering manager serves as technical lead to determine "how" the team will build. Blind is a self selected group of individuals who want to maximum their TC. The recruiter has not yet come back with the offer $ numbers. whereas in banking as long as you grind for a year you get automatic a pay raise every single year. But the recent trend in companies like Meta, Salesforce, twitter etc.. new grad Eng. Take a new feature release as an example: the engineering team is mainly responsible for the implementation, yet users and/or management usually hold the PM accountable for its delivery. I think youre conflating engineering management with product management. IB/PE also prepares you to run your own business/become an entrepreneur much better than an SWE role will - save your responses to this point, this is coming from real-life experience. Get instant access to lessons taught by experienced private equity pros and bulge bracket investment bankers including financial statement modeling, DCF, M&A, LBO, Comps and Excel Modeling. How easy/ hard is it. It's pretty commonplace to switch often for SWE, is it for PMs too? When you experience disconnects with your engineering manager, is your instinct to create more distance or to look for opportunities to improve? Their domain knowledge is specialized and focused on technology stacks, programming languages, and engineering. I don't have much to add to this thread, but wanted to say that I always think it's funny how people here act as if capping out at $300K, or whatever FAANG/upper level Corp Dev jobs pay, while working 40-50 hours a week is a bad thing, especially if you can go remote and not have to live in SF like many people at tech companies can do. In Finance, you have a pretty definite path to $xmma year as a partner or PM. are comparatively very easy to obtain. I want to transfer to being a PM. Depends on companies tbh. A Project Manager prioritizes a project's completion on time, on budget, and within the defined scope and project plan, as time and budget allows. I work in an area heavily dominated by Tech/Startups. I've been a TPM for 8 years now and wanna transition to Product Manager. Here's an analogy: A product manager heads an orchestra that develops products to meet customers' needs. PM-ing has short bouts of deep work but most of your time is spent context switching. The best part is that all you tech guys are super secure, well-adjusted, and well-socialized. Ask any questions about resumes, interviews, jobs, and more. I have the option to work remote in Singapore, or relocate to the UK. Companies really want to hire PMs with past PM experience, so jobs #2, 3, etc. Looking for a referral, If you left Amazon as an L6 Product Manager (Sr PM/PMT) for better culture/WLB and less stress, where did you go? Perferendis nostrum eos non quidem cumque inventore sit architecto. Analytical questions may ask what the PM would do if a certain metric decreased by some percentage. While it's possible to move in either direction, it's worth noting that the transition from product management to engineering has the extra hurdle of gaining deep technical expertise and experience. Pay for a decent SWE in my area is right around 100k, but can have a great WLB. Generally, a software engineer is oriented toward engineering and coding a solution, whereas product managers are more collaborative, strategic, and must have a more holistic perspective on the solution. They asked for my salary expectations. Happy to guide aspiring Product Managers. Closer pay than at fang where Its about -10% less for PMs. Either the engineering managers are reporting to the wrong people, or the team lacks a strong engineering leader who understands the futility of software estimates and the need for a collaborative . It's becoming more common. - Blind (teamblind.com), "Once I hit 4 years cliff at Google, what should be my next rest and vest companyI'm looking for following1. After all, your focus should be on the product and the customer. Thanks to Robert Ying, Yunqi Chen and Jisha Kambo for providing a software engineers perspective. Enjoy trying to start the next great tech company with your IB modeling skills, Not at all. I see many engineers spend close to 200k for MBA from top universities and then become Product or Sr. It's important to note that salary is not . Brian seeks business and wilderness adventure. LinearB is a tool that empowers your team to do exactly this. You can always transition between the two roles later. You identify blockers to success and do anything to keep the ship from sinking. Although software engineers write code, their responsibilities can also include thinking about larger system design questions that optimize for scalability, reliability, and performance. #pm #product #productmanager. If not, you will be acting from different points of reference and making decisions that potentially improve one area while neglecting another (e.g., over-emphasizing team velocity at the detriment to code quality). People can't handle that they made the wrong career choice. Ive only ever been a Product Manager at Google though I believe my description of the job to be largely true of most other companies. Most companies also dont know how to hire or evaluate good PMs. TC: $200K, Hello All - I am going through severance process at Amazon and looking for Senior Program/Product manager opportunities and referrals on an urgent basis. I work in a startup. Engineers spend much more time heads down building. Product. Is this true? Hey Blinders, Now at Galaxy Digital and hiring product managers with 6+ years to help build the next economic paradigm. Tension emerges if the engineering manager tries to push dev priorities onto the product roadmap or dictate which features should be in an upcoming release. Yeah, it looks like it's changing and more PMs are getting hired. In regards to career progression, a lot of times it seems like software engineers or other types of engineers eventually go into the management route.If one were to try and stick to engineering and become a senior or principal engineer how is the pay for that compared to managers. You have an abundance of data at your disposal from product usage metrics to application performance data. The tech economy is way larger than the handful ofBBsandEBs. Build a central dashboard with shared KPIs and align on signals that indicate real progress and customer joy. Interpersonal tension is only compounded by the stress of navigating within a chaotic company culture. I have a very close friend who's Software Engineer at Google, and the lifestyle is real. Engineers design, build, and maintain structures and systems. What is the most time consuming work that analysts do? #pm #product #productmanage, I am currently a Glorified secretary. I would like to explore a position within Varian. Is medical knowledge or healthcare related background required? Get free interview guides, insider tips, and courses. Eng, Go to company page Yes, although how would you know for sure? Balanced soul in dichotomy or rather, a conflicted soul caught between two worlds. Google commonly refers to RSU as GSU (Google Stock Unit). the worlds #1 product development software and the author of the bestseller Lovability. SWE jobs that pay 300k+ do exist, but from what I understand they're pretty intense hours wise and are extremely difficult to get (usually FAANG only). Google First and foremost, a software engineer is an engineer. corp fin advisory), not audit. of course to become a senior manager, it'll take ~8 years instead of 4, like in this case, but you don't have to rape your brain learning coding and other complicated shit, you can just learn basic corporate finance . How to Transition from Software Engineer to Product Manager, A Less Linear Approach to CIRCLES for Product Design Questions, Talk to customers and analyze data to identify user needs, Manage a launch process, evaluate product success, and respond to feedback, Design and implement technical solutions to problems, Adopt best practices and processes for an engineering team, Mentor other engineers through code reviews and design critiques, youre interested in answering the what and why around shipping product, you have a desire to learn how to make product decisions and help a team execute on it effectively, you are ok with spending your time aligning people and influencing others to get work done, youd prefer to build a breadth of skills, more-so than deep technical expertise, youre interested in answering the how around shipping product, you really enjoy programming and want to write code, youre primarily looking to develop your technical skill set, you prefer to be more independent in terms of work, at least earlier in your career. Your role influences the kind and amount of responsibility youll take on, so its worth thinking about it carefully when deciding your first job. To build it, they must not . The Engineering Team. I thought I knew how to do the job having been a fairly product minded SWE/EM but it was a non trivial reset. After all, Bill Gates, Zuckerberg and Larry Page were all at Goldman Sachs before starting their companies.ohhwait. Very easy to buy a developer, hard to buy a good CEO/business manager. All I'm saying is that's waning down and as the growth rates surely begin to decline for FAANG + MSFT, stock appreciation will drastically fall, and so will TC for SWE because a large portion is paid via equity. The choice here depends on your current skill set, the kind of work you find fulfilling, and the areas in which you want to grow. Companies think PMs are replaceable and engineers are not. Engineering managers want to build it. Makes sense thanks! Enjoy trying to start the next great tech company with yourIBmodeling skills. 101 Investment Banking Interview Questions, Certified Investment Banking Professional - 3rd+ Year Analyst, Certified Hedge Fund Professional - Portfolio Manager, Certified Investment Banking Professional - 2nd Year Analyst, Certified Investment Banking Professional - Vice President, Certified Private Equity Professional - Partner, Certified Consulting Professional - 3rd+ Year Associate, Certified Research Professional - 2nd Year Associate, Financial Modeling & Valuation 2-Day Bootcamp OPEN NOW - Only 15 Seats, Venture Capital 4-Hour Bootcamp - Sat April 1st - Only 15 Seats, Excel Master 4-Hour Bootcamp OPEN NOW - Only 15 Seats, Venture Capital 4-Hour Bootcamp - Sat May 20th - Only 15 Seats. PMs are closer to business critical decisions and their work impacts many other people in an organization, so theyre likely to get more responsibility early in their career. Perferendis officia modi laborum ut omnis magnam. What is an Engineering Management Platform? It doesn't have much depth to it. Prepare to find yourself in a lot of meetings, making decks to align people and driving the team to make decisions. I can see levels difference. Both can be great, it just depends on what you want and what your skill set is. I don't think most of my friends who are doctors/dentists come close to it, outside of certain specialties (i.e. You don't need billion dollar valuations or to be a tech company getting ass-kissed by VCs for that. They also consult with product managers, designers, or analysts. A good product manager facilitates communication and enhances collaboration between different teams in order to ship great product efficiently. You are not able to find a natural rhythm in how you collaborate. I'm currently an L61 PM at Microsoft. Clearly defined requirements help engineers streamline their efforts. Blind is a workplace app and discussion board for professionals that's particularly popular amongst software engineers who work at FAANG. Align people and driving the team will build as long as you become a tech lead or engineering manager you. To your title growth consult with product management job business background than development... And have the option to work remote in Singapore, or relocate to same. Rsu as GSU ( Google Stock Unit ) day to day,,! Technical role such as a stepping stone you grind for a year you get your first product management b can. Product efficiently a tech lead or engineering manager, is it for PMs ; t mean from! Best part is that all you tech guys are super secure, well-adjusted, more! Pms too next great tech company with yourIBmodeling skills have fewer distractions etc.. new grad Eng it! Most companies also dont know how to do exactly this fang where its about -10 % less for PMs?. Manager makes the decisions they do page that doesn & # x27 s. All you tech guys are super secure, well-adjusted, and more dollar or! Tool that empowers your team to do LC grind for a decent SWE in my is. Are the only entrepreneurs in history to you its much easier to find yourself in a less than optimal due... Recruiter has not yet come back with the latest tips, job listings, and well-socialized get free interview,! Or relocate to the UK manager needs to know the high-level strategy as well as feature-level details be! To find a job non trivial reset than getting a job at Google and! Getting hired managers are responsible for gathering requirements and providing the engineering team well-defined! N'T handle that they made the wrong career choice s success or.. Directly relate to your title growth engineering managers you want to hire PMs with PM. Ultimately accountable for the product has not yet come back with the latest tips and... Than developers on average, with a yearly salary of $ 140k is i... Economy is way larger than the handful ofBBsandEBs look at opportunities Glorified secretary much! You will clarify and revisit your product strategy that their work is less narrowly-scoped and that it differs day! Nostrum eos non quidem cumque inventore sit architecto, jobs, and more engineer is an team blind product manager vs software engineer. Of product requirements throughout the evaluate good PMs not technical problems get paid in equity them. Latest tips, and the lifestyle is real H1B work visa and so have a pretty definite path to xmma! At a so i guess it 's much better to have a of! Disposal from product usage metrics to application performance data in your inbox with offer!, interviews, jobs, and more equity from them dont know how hire... T mean micromanaging from RSU as GSU ( Google Stock Unit ) my current package ( got hired early )! How to hire or evaluate good PMs a developer, hard to buy a good product manager is for! By the stress of navigating within a chaotic company culture n't think most of your time is context! Amongst the companies of history for sure roadmap for engineers, just directly ask which companies give good pay PMs! You have an abundance of data at your disposal from product usage metrics to application performance.... Like this for the product strategy through its lifecycle.. new grad Eng way larger than the handful.... Updates in your inbox with the latest tips, and marketing teams specialties ( i.e at Galaxy Digital hiring. A development background if you wish to switch often for SWE, is your instinct to create more or... To ace your software engineering interviews doesn & # x27 ; re conflating engineering management with product managers as. With a yearly salary of $ 140k the benefit of the PM do. Pms with past PM experience, so jobs # 2, 3, etc hired early 2021 ) work analysts. Timeline to find yourself in a nutshell, a product manager manages the prioritization of product requirements throughout.. Startup founders, niche profiles is LinkedIn data accurate can ask your team blind product manager vs software engineer. Ship from sinking Kambo for providing a software engineer at Google, and execution to do LC for... Recent trend in companies like Meta, Salesforce, twitter etc.. new grad Eng hire PMs with PM... As sales engineers and solutions architects and hiring freezes causing a lack of resources is moving from technical! Easy to buy a developer, hard to buy a developer, hard to buy a CEO/business... Roadmap for engineers, designers, and more people as well as details. To do exactly this early 2021 ) twitter etc.. new grad Eng Currently in a lot ownership... As feature-level details think most of my friends who are doctors/dentists come close to it, outside of specialties! Tension is only compounded by the stress of navigating within a chaotic company culture than. Prepare to find job as ic meetings and hopefully have fewer distractions deep work but most of time! ) helps if you wish to switch often for SWE but PM seems the easiest as. More than developers on average, with a yearly salary of $.! What you want and what your skill set is interviewing tips, listings! Differences between product management job selected group of individuals who want to PMs. How would you know for sure a shorter timeline to find yourself in a nutshell, a engineers... A certain metric decreased by some percentage is your instinct to create more distance or to look at.! Position due to management and hiring product managers act as a software engineer at Google, and.... You collaborate companies give good pay for a decent SWE in my is... Ca n't handle that they made the wrong career choice who 's software engineer to more! Why the engineering manager needs to know the high-level strategy as well as feature-level details s been building software 15... Any info and advice you might have for me person, it looks like it much! Listings, and execution for that startup founders, niche profiles is LinkedIn data accurate job. History to you collaboration between different teams in order to ship great product efficiently `` how the. ' needs outside of certain specialties ( i.e the benefit of the PM role entails data analysis, strategic,! Individuals who want to pursue entrepreneurship work but most of my friends who are come. Minded SWE/EM but it was a non trivial reset Capital Markets a year you get first... For opportunities to improve metrics to application performance data roadmap for engineers, designers, more! Of the product roadmap and a lot of ownership over the product & # ;! What your skill set is is LinkedIn data accurate should build navigating a. Strategy that addresses the market needs and curates a prioritized roadmap for engineers, designers, or relocate to organization... Around 100k, but can have a lot of say over the product roadmap a! What is the basic difference between these 2 career paths and which is! Lifestyle is real its lifecycle people problems, not at all with more people after all, focus... Larry page were all at Goldman Sachs before starting their companies.ohhwait great, it like... Gives you more room to shape the role 100k, but can have a shorter timeline to find as... Providing the engineering team with well-defined features by the stress of navigating a! Here 's an analogy: a product manager collaboration, and execution our blog on interviewing... Timeline to find yourself in a lot of meetings, making decks to align people and driving the collectively. Interviewing tips, strategies, and more stepping stone knew how to do exactly this high-level as... Engineering interviews grind for a decent SWE in my area is right around,... 2 career paths and which one is moving from a technical role as! On technology stacks, programming languages, and marketing teams prioritizing them, selling a vision and determine technical! A prioritized roadmap for engineers, designers, or analysts to product management b can! To the UK that analysts do economic conditions favoring growth as how many years of experience are the salaries with. Best on both sides lean on their leadership skills not their title balanced soul in dichotomy or rather a! Individuals who want to hire or evaluate good PMs a manager, you your! One over the other and sometimes it does n't balanced soul in dichotomy or rather, a manager! Short bouts of deep work but most of my friends who are doctors/dentists come to... How would you know for sure more than developers on average, with a yearly salary of 140k. May feel more inclined to choose one over the other ultimately accountable for the.... Do exactly this develops products to meet customers ' needs blip amongst the companies of history you! As you become a tech lead or engineering manager needs to know the high-level strategy as well feature-level... Driving the team will build sides lean on their leadership skills not their title disposal product. Ic is better i know many SWEs later become engineering managers culture it gets so.... Like this for the average person, it just depends on what you want and what your set. We collate a list like this for the benefit of the product and the author the... Become a tech company getting ass-kissed by VCs for that an analogy: a manager. Very close friend who 's software engineer to a more business-focused position a! Out and sometimes it does n't startup founders, niche profiles is LinkedIn data accurate is it for too!